Thursday, April 9, 2015

Heart Cath and Amnesia

I had an alleged crna come on here recently and opine that the elderly, along with drug addicts and alcoholics are the "typical" people who might not deal with Versed well.  (He/she didn't go into it in detail look up POCD and see how "benign" it is.)  Here's the strange part...look at the people who took the time to bash Versed on this site

VERSED: Side effects, ratings, and patient comments

There are two patients who have been given Versed for a heart procedure just in the last month or so.  So, how old do you figure most people are who have a heart cath?  How is it that they were given Versed, IF, as one alleged anesthesia person writes, the elderly are at elevated risk of POCD from Versed?  Does it make sense to use Versed when they KNOW they could be damaging cognitive function in their patient?  Kinda puts paid to the idea that Versed is for the patients well being. The two writers I am referencing had horrible experiences with Versed, to the point they went on to relate their experience.   Here are the excerpts;

 1 Cardiac cathHorrible paranoia, heard the people talking in operating room,felt the needle being put into my arterie. Wad intibated and woke feeling that I had been buried alive. Wwould never recommend this drug to anyone.F2 days

 1 surgery to fix heart arthymiaThe doctors said I fought them at the end of surgery, HARD! I fell off the surgery table, heard the metal crashing against metal of the surgical tray that fell . Nurses pulled me out from under the table. I came out of anesthesia too early. I could hear the doctors and nurses talking but could not move. They said I was not breathing on my own, so the anesthesiologist tried to intubate me and put the tube in my throat improperly. He crushed 2 vocal chords and then decided he would make an incision in my throat and neck. A smart nurse told him to let her try to intubate me. She got it right away but he already did the damage! Then I opened my eyes, looked right at him and pointed at him very angrily. My voice still isn't right after 2 yearsF60
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There is no zero rating for any drug on  A (1) is as low as it goes.  This explains the "high" rating of 2.7 out of 5.  If there were a (0) we would have a more accurate picture of how PATIENTS view this drug, regardless of the propaganda disseminated by medical people.

As an aside, when I had my heart cath done WITHOUT VERSED, I felt like I was over reacting to the possibility of being given Versed.  I was absolutely adamant that I not get it.  I brought Amy the patient advocate with me to make sure I didn't get it.  Versed is bad, Bad, BAD!  The procedure is not worth getting your brain insulted with poison so that you "forget" the trauma.  It's a non event.  No trauma.  What the hell is wrong with these medical people?

I wanted to put this one up so you can see just one more person who hates Versed.  This person got the "anesthesiologist" fired.  Good for her.  I heard what my crna was saying, as did the rest of the laughing "team" in the OR where I went.  MY nurses joined in the fun.  MY nurses heard me say "no incapacitating drugs" and merrily shot me up with Versed anyway.   MY nurses were complicit in the abuse.  This lady was so very lucky to have the nurse she had.  I am very envious.  You can go to t see the posts in situ.

1 I was given Versed for surgeryvery painful spasms of arms and legs. Extreme feeling of heat, to the point of weeping and begging not to be given any more of "whatever you're using." The surgeon was not in the room at the time, and thought I was being given diazepam.the anesthesiologist remarked to the three surgical nurses, "Oh, we have a drama queen here. Let's give her more Versed." One of the nurses ran to get my surgeon, who stopped the anesthesia and postponed the operation. (abdominal laparoscopy.) The anesthesiologist later was dismissed by the Memorial/Herrman hospital system.F631 days
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  1. How common is it for patients to refuse sedation for cardiac caths, and get their way?

    I anticipate a cardiac cath may be in my future and absolutely do not want any Versed or similar drug. I do not react well to such drugs. I'll be out for hours and then sick afterwards. It doesn't even make sense when they say the procedure is not painful, yet they want to give us amnesia for our comfort?

    As an aside I had to fight to get a colonoscopy done last year without sedation, but got my way. There was no pain whatsoever and it was fascinating to watch the procedure on the screen.

    1. I had my heart cath done without ANY sedation. I didn't have a problem, but I did switch doctors. I don't get into any argument about it. I asked, he told me he insisted upon Versed, for the various reasons, and I changed doctors. When the original cardio's office called me to find out why I went to a differnt doctor, I told her that Versed is a deal breaker and while I liked the cardio and thought we had established a rapport, Versed wasn't debatable and *I* certainly wasn't going to fight with him over it. I also told her to pay attention to how many heart patients went from lucid to a rest home after their procedure. I think she made the connection. Heart patients are at extreme risk from Versed according to one of the crna's who excoriated me in the comments. She blamed it on the patients and I blamed it on the drug.

      Anyway, I had nothing but Fentanyl on demand. The mildly painful part was only at the insertion point (tender part of groin)and then, only towards the end of the procedure. I enjoyed the conversation among my caregivers (submarines) and liked watching what they were doing on a tv screen. Nothing at all to worry about. I was in at 6am and out by 3pm the same day. Basically a non-event.

  2. The current recommendation in the anesthesia community is avoiding benzos in patients over the age of 65-70. I personally don't give them at all unless a patient is so nervous they are crying and shaking, and even then I will try something else first. Cardiologists, gastroenterologists, etc. don't have the luxury of administering propofol because of safety and liability issues, so they use benzos and narcotics for sedation.