Monday, February 27, 2012
I neither ridiculed nor insulted you. (Oh really?) I took issue with your statements, which are factually incorrect. (Says who? You? I'm quoting statistics from studies, not making things up! I also gave you a bunch of citations from the body of medical knowledge which refutes what you say is true and correct.) I didn't call you "Honey," either, Honey. And I don't wear panties. Why are my facts "biases" and yours are the pinnacle of enlightenment? (The difference comes in because *I* am not the person claiming that a bad drug is perfect and that people who object to its use and/or are harmed by it are stupid, the studies are wrong, blah, blah, blah. It's not a "pinnacle of enlightenment," which is an amusing bit of hyperbole by the way, it's a factual discussion about what happened to me and others in re Versed) By they way, I am and always have been a non-drinker. You don't have to drink to know how a person gets drunk. (I am really happy to hear this. Seriously.)
As far as clinical trials to prove a point, you should know by know that there is a clinical trial available to prove just about anything you like. (So you agree to disagree? I have proved my side by factual studies, clinical trials and personal experience. You say the opposite and I have also seen those studies. My personal experience differs from the establishment position on Versed, so I have cited those studies which correspond with my view. My view is the correct one. How's that for arrogance?)
If you don't want to take Versed, that's your right. (Garfield, it IS my right not to have Versed! Thank you for agreeing with that. Do you know why I started this blog? It's because somebody, probably a lot like you, decided unilaterally to inject me with Versed, without warning or permission and in defiance of my wishes. I have a history of bad reactions, called "paradoxical" reactions to drugs. He decided, after his 250,000 dollar (so you say) education and 15 years of his life, that HE, NOT ME was in charge of what drugs would be used and what procedures *I* would endure for *HIS* benefit. If he had listened to me and followed my instructions which were perfectly within reason, I wouldn't be here! All he had to do was explain what HE was going to do to me. All of it. This is required by law BTW. I would have politely refused and he could have either done it as *I* wished and gave permission for, or I could have signed out AMA and found somebody else who could do my procedure the way *I* wanted it done. No harm, no foul. Don't tell me that's not possible because I had to have a repeat of the same surgery and guess what? My new crna didn't even have Versed in the same room with me. There was no problem whatsoever with doing the surgery with a bier block and Fentanyl on demand. I'm alarmed that you wouldn't have a problem with what crna #1 did to me. Add in the extreme reaction to Versed and you have a freakin' DISASTER of medical care for me PERSONALLY. Obviously crna #1 thought it was just fine, as do most of the crna's which have come here to ridicule me.) But save your vitriol for some other non-issue. A 90% O2 saturation is not dangerous. Any first year student of anesthesiology knows that. (Garfield, the article I mentioned lists an O2 saturation of less than 90% as an adverse event. I DIDN'T MAKE THE LIST! Jeez you people can be obtuse!)
I pointed out your misspelling (you left out a syllable, not just a letter) of "apoptosis" simply to indicate you are unfamiliar with the term. You obviously don't have a clue what it means. ( Garfield, one of my favorite sayings is that you can learn about anything if you can read. I have never in my life spoken the word "apoptosis." I have never heard the word spoken. I probably would mispronounce it as well. Obviously I read, so what's the problem? Of course I know what it is! Did you look at the articles I cited about anesthesia and apoptosis? My spell check still says I'm spelling apoptosis wrong! You do realize that a statement like "You obviously don't have a clue what it means" is a slur don't you cupcake? In this case "cupcake" is a pejorative, just like "honey" and the "panties in a bunch.")
"KNOW YOUR ENEMY. KNOW THE LAW" You are on a witch hunt for bad guys, and there are no more bad guys in medicine than in any other field. (I don't need to go on a witch hunt for bad guys as you suggest. They come to me, now don't they? I think that there may be just as many "bad guys" in medicine as there are in any other field. There is a problem with this. People are at their most vulnerable with medical care and the attending personnel. Can you see how this would be much worse than say, your grocery bagger being a bad guy? You medical workers have unparalleled opportunities to harm people. Your mistakes have a far greater significance than a shoe salesman's mistakes. You people can drug us, give us life threatening illnesses (MRSA etc) perform poor surgery and a host of other things all of which *I* experienced. Most other job descriptions don't include this kind of power. Your mechanic isn't going to bankrupt you with poor medical care either, is he/she?
Everybody needs to know that the informed consent laws are being routinely broken. Did you read the part where my hospital was cited for numerous violations? This was unfortunately NOT an isolated incident. There are so many patients complaining about the total lack of consent for anything like Versed, that it's alarming. It's a pattern of abuse. We are not prisoners of the hospital to be dealt with like lab rats! Versed isn't the little innocuous drug that medical workers would have us believe, if they mention it at all. There are serious mental and physical effects of being poisoned with Versed that are not being revealed by medical workers. That's part of their job BY LAW! If I could ban it I would. At the very least we have to stop with the adversarial positioning of medical professionals when the patient limits intervention. They ARE the enemy if the patient wants to be treated like a human being. (and avoid Versed) It's doubly bad because all of us will need medical care at some point. Even if we avoid doctors like the plague, there will still be a time when we will have to deal with them. I have to see one every 2 years in order to keep my job. As far as I can see Versed incites passions in medical people that I had to see to believe. They are dispensing with informed consent in order to use this drug. The "know your enemy" quote comes from my submarine veteran buddies. I like it and I use it. )
There is another problem with your statement. Studies have shown (here we go again) that ACCESS TO DRUGS (free and potent in this case) can lead to addiction at a much greater rate than the general population. This leads to addiction in the medical field in greater numbers, in particular anesthesia. This is according to ALL studies I've read, no ambiguity. As I've said before, I have no personal knowledge of this. Do I want somebody drugging me with Versed, knocking me out and/or performing surgery all the while on drugs? Nope. I want a sane, sober person who accepts that I am a unique individual and can CUSTOMIZE MY CARE! All that training and all those years of your life, for what? So you can perform like an automaton? I might as well have a high school student with rote training like 'paindoc' suggests.
Maybe you should spend a quarter of a million and 15 years of your life investing in a medical education before you start a blog such as this. You are WAY over your head. (I'm way over my head if I want to PRACTICE MEDICINE! I am not in way over my head to remark on the current state of medicine, the lack of informed consent and the overuse and misuse of the absolute POISON that is Versed. I don't have to have a medical degree to obtain safe, sane medical care! Or do I? You do realize that saying that I'm in "way over my head" is yet another insult right? So are you saying that I need a medical degree before I can assess what happened to me and form conclusions? You sound lucid sometimes and like the other megalomaniacs in the medical field some of the time. Which is it?)
Not to mention that OTHER effects of Versed, such as the Alzheimers-like memory loss, dementia-like symptoms and the lack of cognitive function that are due to Versed. Why would they give us an unnecessary drug like Versed which chemically creates all these dreadful symptoms? How could anybody explain with a straight face that artificially causing these kinds of disorders in people is a good thing? Why is it fine to use Versed to cause these symptoms, but it's NOT fine to have the exact same problems without Versed? (there are some articles which point out this disparity) It's not always a temporary drug induced condition either... There are plenty of studies on the mental decline starting from Versed "sedation."
Symptoms of Hypoxemia
The symptoms of hypoxemia depend on the severity i.e. the amount by which the partial pressure has reduced.
- Symptoms of mild hypoxemia:
- Disorientation, confusion, lassitude and listlessness
- Symptoms of acute hypoxemia:
- Cyanosis (Skin appearing bluish due to insufficient oxygen)
- Cheyne-Stokes respiration (irregular pattern of breathing)
- Increased blood pressure
- Apnea (temporary cessation of breathing)
- Tachycardia (increased rate of heartbeats, more than 100 per min)
- Hypotension (abnormally low blood pressure, below 100 diastolic and 40 systolic. Here, as an effect of an initial increase in cardiac output and rapid decrease later.)
- Ventricular fibrillation (irregular and uncoordinated contractions of the ventricles)
- Asystole (severe form of cardiac arrest, heart stops beating)
- Polycythemia (abnormal increase in RBCs. The bone marrow may be stimulated to produce excessive RBCs in case of patients suffering from chronic hypoxemia)
"You are absolutely incorrect in your assumption that desaturation causes brain cell death. It most certainly does not." (Really? So if you have a lack of blood flow carrying oxygen to the brain, or restrict the blood flow to parts of the brain due to Versed, this causes NO harm? So why is saturation of less than 90% considered an adverse event? You better start learning about oxygen saturation and the major problems it causes!) "Furthermore, you need to get your terminology correct. Apoptosis (or as you incorrectly spelled, "aptosis") (Typo, don't get your panties in a bunch!) is the normal pre-programmed death of cells. All normal cells are programmed to die. Every cell in your body is replaced in one year's time. Cells which are not pre-programmed to die are called cancer. (I think you better look at studies and/or definitions like this, Garfield. Apoptosis: understanding programmed cell death for th... [AANA J. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI or this Cerebral hypoxia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia These directly refute your statement. There are way too many citations for me to put up here. Do your homework!)
The degree of pain is determined by the dosage of anesthesia and has nothing to do with Versed." "The only way you can achieve 100% reduction in pain is at the risk of killing a patient with an overdose." (Not asking for 100% pain reduction, and Midazolam is NOT a pain medication! Are you agreeing with me that Versed/Midazolam isn't a pain medication? That's a first!) "Do you think that is a good thing?" (Well, what do you think? What a stupid question, rhetorical or not!) "A 90% 02 saturation is not dangerous for the vast majority of patients." (emphasis mine; No matter WHAT you say, it's listed as an adverse event honey! Obviously this IS dangerous for the vast majority of patients or the saturation point would be lower for adverse event reporting. Here's a study opining that the saturation should be moved to 92%; Oxygen Saturations Less than 92% Are Associated with Major Adverse Events in Outpatients with Pneumonia: A Population-Based Cohort Study This is just one study. If it's bad for pnuemonia patients, why is it OK for Versed patients? Here's a quote, " By convention, saturations <90% represented hypoxemia..." Let's see, what else can cause this? It's Versed!) If you ride in pressurized commercial air, your saturation will be lower than that (which is why you get looped on one alcoholic beverage)." (I don't get looped because I don't use drugs like alcohol which are known to destroy brain cells. Is this why you are so sanguine about destroying brain cells in patients? Because you destroy your own through alcohol consumption? Just asking.)
"A little learning is a dangerous thing...drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring." Alexander Pope (Essays on Criticism) I say this back to you dear Garfield. You are making some major assumptions here that are not based in fact, merely your own (biased) ideas. I am not the "vast majority" of patients and I resent being catagorized like this and subjected to things that YOU find are acceptable risks. There's all the information in the world right here on the computer and you are not "drinking deep." Actually Garfield, if you are a medical person, then you have access to even more studies which show the risk of Versed. It is a manifestation of your love for using Versed that forces you to try to defend the indefensible. Versed is absolutely unnecessary. Versed is dangerous to far too many patients minds. Cognitive Impairment Following Sedation for Colonoscopy With Propofol, Midazolam and Fentanyl Combinations - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov Medical people admit to 10% bad reactions to Versed. Personal experience with medical people leads me to believe that that number is under reported. Whatever, the 10% number times the "thousands of times Versed is used daily" adds up to an unacceptable number of adverse events. Do the math! All this for a drug that is used inappropriately and over prescribed.
Thursday, February 23, 2012
"Significant Desaturation;" (>90%) is 4.5% of the study patients. What happens to the brain when significant desaturation occurs? That's right, brain cell death or apoptosis.
The 'adverse event' of pain is as follows; "Excessive Pain" (as interpreted by MEDICAL PEOPLE, not the patient is 2.5%. "Moderate Pain" (admitted to by the people CAUSING the pain) is at 6%. I'm sure these are under reported. "Mild Pain" ( yeah right) is at 3.7%. Keep in mind that these sedation patients are also being given pain medication as well. FULLY 12.2% OF SEDATED PATIENTS ARE EXPERIENCING PAIN!!! And this is just as reported in this study, which is slanted to prove that nurses should be able to provide sedation!!!
For all of the nurses who say that Versed is so relaxing, why is it that HYPERTENSION is so prevelent with Versed??? The adverse event of hypertension is at 2.7%! The hypotension group is at .3%. When you are "relaxed" with Versed wouldn't you think those numbers would be reversed? How 'bout it Insane Nurse? Want to address this?
"Restlessness" comes in at 6.4%! Restlessness in sedated patients! Isn't Versed supposed to be so "relaxing?" I thought Versed was given to "sedate" patients! Obviously Versed isn't so "sedating" after all. It's an amnesia drug and a patient control drug ONLY, in my opinion. (period)
Totalling up all the adverse events it comes to 29.6% of patients. These are patients who have mostly minor procedures with anesthesia which is performed by nurses that are going to have one or more of these adverse events. This is totally acceptable to medical people like ASA. More than 1 in 4 patients having adverse events is good?
So what are the parameters of what constitutes "good" sedation? It's OK to CAUSE these problems in 1/4 of patients as long as the patient doesn't die? Does POCD matter? What about PTSD? Is it OK to starve patients brains of oxygen? This is a LOT of risk for an unnecessary part of minor procedures isn't it?
Tuesday, February 21, 2012
I have a couple of quotes from this discussion. I am throwing them in here to show how we patients are coming to the same conclusions, apart from each other, implicating Versed.
"Susan (alisande) posted recently about memory loss connected to the medical use of Versed prior to anesthesia.
The DD of aging parents told me she is concerned that her father is rapidly becoming senile. He had esophogeal cancer surgery and must have endoscopies every six months now to monitor his condition.
I asked his DD if she was aware that Versed could be contributing to his rather sudden loss of ability to find his way while driving. She hadn't made the connection, but said that *she* has had a bad reaction to the drug. Her MD told her to state on medical forms that she is "allergic" to Versed."
I have also opined that Versed mimics Alzheimer's and could be culpable in creating an accelerated Alzheimer's type memory problem. I have been taken to task for DARING to mention this! I have a couple of unpublished comments from medical personnel doing just that. If you want to see them e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I will forward them to you.
I also want to mention the "allergy" to Versed. I have heard from too many people including my own family members, that saying that you are "allergic" to Versed doesn't work. There is a narrow PHYSICAL description of what an "allergic" reaction is. A bad reaction or paradoxical reaction isn't something that the medical people give a damn about. Once they fight with the patient over the exact terminology of what an "allergy" is, then they go ahead and give Versed anyway.
"An 81-year-old friend wrote to me recently asking about my experience with cataract surgery. I'm sure my reply wasn't quite what he expected, as 3/4 of it basically said, "Stay away from Versed."
Sure sounds like something *I* would do, but this quote isn't me! It's from the same discussion I linked to in the opening paragraph. The final quote is below in green. I LOVE this one!
"Maybe we are *creating* mentally impaired people -- who will need medical care, (ware)housing, other profit-producing services. Insurance companies could sell more long term care!"
So there you have it! Yet another discussion of Versed by the people that are being assaulted and damaged by it. Of course crna's and the like have also found this discussion and with boringly predictable behavior have nastily defended Versed. Medical workers love Versed SO MUCH that they just can't stand to have any stupid patients say anything bad about this drug, anywhere at any time without jumping in with their sneering comments. I've never seen anything like it. I had to add this quote from one of our esteemed medical workers....
"As to the person whose dad had esophageal ca & was getting rapidly senile..... you've taken one variable (the Versed) & pinned it as a cause/effect. What about the fact he is AGED?"
Oh yes, let's not forget "sudden onset AGE!" LOL That's what it has to be! Can't be Versed... The very drug that they give to people to cause memory loss by disrupting the delicate processes of the brain (not to mention extreme docility) can't possibly be contributing to additional memory loss post injection... Gee that makes no sense to me! I'm being facetious here folks! Just taking a jab at our oh-so-very-smart medical workers. It's not rocket science people. Versed is used to cause the same symptoms that are being objected to later. There is a very clear connection.
Sunday, February 19, 2012
The Ring of Fire - YouTube
Friday, February 17, 2012
"Versed allowed administrtaion [sic] of a quick responding and highly effective intranasal route..."
This is absolutely frightening to me. A lay person (allegedly) is allowed to possess and dispense a drug like this without medical supervision. She could use it on ANYBODY for any reason. So she can destroy not only her own daughter's brain, but also anybody else whom she pleases. She admits there are other drugs to use which are just not as easy!
If this woman can get Versed, so can anybody else. I wonder where she gets it? Does she get it from her doctor's office? Does she get it at Wal-Mart? Rite Aid? So any druggy can get their hands on it by robbing the drug store? How does she transport it? Does she carry it in her PURSE? Does she leave it in her car? Does she have some in her house while she's gone? Has she heard of purse snatchers? Carjackers? Burglaries? Any anti social person can now get their hands on Versed and use it for nefarious purposes? How wonderful for rapists!
What's to stop her from giving it to her best friend to control a temper tantrum in their 2 year old? Is she going to use it like pepper spray on anybody she doesn't like the looks of? This woman LOVES Versed! Of course that's because, like medical workers, she uses it on somebody else. Anybody who writes what this woman wrote to me should NEVER under any circumstances be allowed to possess this drug! The idea that she has it, uses it, takes it out in public is shocking to me. I'm going to see if this is true. I have trouble believing that any old person can strut around with Versed in their possession! I'm calling my pharmacy! This, if true, must be stopped.
Thursday, February 16, 2012
Go to www.versedbusters.blogspot.com and read! We are NOT imagining this! It's doubly insulting to hear these howls of denial from medical workers, when 1) THEY KNOW IT'S TRUE that Versed is a very bad drug for PATIENTS! 2) They continuously claim that it ISN'T TRUE, that Versed is wonderful even in the face of proof that it's bad! I almost have to laugh at these oh-so-smart crna's and such telling us these ridiculous things! Come on you guys. You know perfectly well that you torture people on Versed. You KNOW how bad this drug is and yet, in your infinite wisdom, you continue to practice torture and willfully inject people with a drug they don't want, don't need, and shouldn't be used.
Here is our patient rebutting Jules in her own words. Don't you agree?
Kay has left a new comment on your post "Fair and Balanced!":
"I do realize that doctors have varying levels of training and/or proficiency, but to subject a patient to an incision from navel to pubis which necessitates a multiple-day stay in the hospital, requires pain medication for untold days and/or weeks,to blithely tell me I would have to return for further surgery for a related procedure she was not capable of (my surgeon did it all in one visit to the OR), and to have to be off work for weeks, not to mention the increased cost is, to me, out and out patient abuse. Pure and simple. And, in fact, my surgeon said the reason the other wanted to do the slicing was 'she wants the money'!! Very telling that one surgeon would say that about another.
The DaVinci robot was available at the hospital where the surgeon wanted to slice, but I didn't even know there was an option - she just wasn't willing to hand me over to another surgeon and lose all that money.
*But please know that healthcare workers chose their field to help, not to hurt, their patients.* That may be true, but somewhere along the way they lost that ideal and now it most certainly is just a job and just a source of income. I have no problem with that, but would it be so hard to treat us with respect and courtesy and dignity."
Monday, February 13, 2012
Thursday, February 9, 2012
Jules has left a new comment on your post "Textbook FAIL! First paragraph.":
"Different doctors have different training. They also have different equipment and resources available to them. Doctor number one has most likely not been trained on the DiVinci system. It is not widely available in many areas. Because he performs the surgery differently than doctor number two does not make him evil, money-grubbing, or even incompetent. (I do admit, however, that there are doctors who think the know all and are not to be questioned. That is a reflection on them as people, not on the healthcare community as a whole.)
As for your ideas on informed consent, all I can say is that you sound paranoid. Perhaps this is understandable given your past experiences. I have to tell you, though, that in this EXTREMELY litigious society, doctors can and will do whatever is necessary to cover their butts. No surgeon is going to rationalize doing anything experimental or unnecessarry simply because you signed a consent form. The clause that you are referring to is there for a couple of reasons: 1) If your surgeon is inside of you and spots something that (s)he deems to me life-threatening, (s)he has your permission to remove it. It has to be an immediate threat. If you cross out the phrase, should (s)he ignore the threat? 2) Suppose that during an orthopedic procedure to remove a bone spur that has been causing you pain, the surgeon spots a small cyst that could be contributing to the problem. Should (s)he finish up the consented procedure, close you up, wait until the drugs wear off and THEN mention what was seen? At this point you could sign another consent and have a second procedure, I suppose. Twice the pain, twice the bill, twice the anesthesia? Seems kind of silly doesn't it? If you choose to cross anything off the Informed Consent, please make sure you ask questions and think about the consequences. If you were the patient in one of the above situations, would you be okay with the surgeon following your wishes and NOT doing what should have been done? Or would you awake from anesthesia, find out what happened and become angry and indignant? Things that make you go hmmmmm...
I fully agree that one should seek out second (or even third) opinions. Discuss and weigh your options. But please know that healthcare workers chose their field to help, not to hurt, their patients. Are there doctors out there who are in it for the money? I'm sure there are. But between the lawyers, the student loans, the government and the insurance companies who don't like to pay, I can assure you that most doctors don't take home as much as you might imagine."
Of course I have a rebuttal to this which can be seen below his remarks in situ. Jules makes valid arguments. However, my experience, whether it made me "paranoid" or not, forces me to take the stance that I have. IF my health care workers had given me just half the respect this commenter has, and if they had a thought process like his, this would all be a moot point. I hold Jules up as a reasonable, rational person, that I probably would trust to remove my heel spur. As long as he agreed to a nerve block and pain meds ONLY! Sedation is not an option. G/A is totally unnecessary in extremity surgery if you have competent help. The beauty of doing things MY way, is that I would be able to give additional consent from the OR if things went south. Jules was worried about that. Now he doesn't have to.
Here's a copy of the document;Intraoperative+report+013.jpg (image)
1) We start right out with a falsehood. I don't know how many times I have to repeat the same thing over and over before medical people understand... I-DID-NOT-FALL-OFF-A-HORSE-WITH-MY-ARM-OUTSTRETCHED!!! It never happened. How many hundreds of times do I need to be ejected from the saddle to know that we DON'T extend our arms? I got KNOCKED DOWN, as in near the horse, not on it! I got spun through the air with my arms pulled into my chest so as not to break them. When I rolled across the ground (with force) over my arm, it was caught with the palm outward and the back of the hand against the chest. This is what broke my arm. I HEARD IT SNAP! Try this yourself and see how this could happen. Nobody LISTENED to me!
Moving down to the part where it says 'general condition:' See where it says "no distress?" This is true, I wasn't in any distress. I was calm. I was relaxed. I was glad to be having my arm fixed. (little did *I* know what was going to happen) I trusted these people... How could I possible know that my nasty little crna was going to write elsewhere that I had "anxiety" and do every single thing I had instructed him not to? Amazing isn't it? Each medical person writes whatever they want on these documents to make themselves look good, or to justify their actions.
Now look farther down the page to where it says 'extremities:' "Edema, ecchy, a circled L, and then a total LIE! Nowhere else on any document anywhere is my arm described as it is here; sig. deformity!(?) Every other document I have says the opposite. NO deformity. There was no deformity other than swelling and even that is described elsewhere as "moderate swelling." Apparently the PA has been instructed to put this crap down as justification. I am even suspicious of the "ecchy" (ecchymosis; bruising that generally occurs with aging skin when bumped or pulled) designation. There was no discoloration or bruising, so I'm wondering where this came from? Is this just what everybody puts down for a broken arm? Was this guy looking at another patient?
Here's the million dollar question in light of the terrible job somebody did on my arm; Whose signature is on the line at the bottom? That's right, it's the PA whom I suspect did the surgery. My surgeons illegible initials are on that line as well... Why? The PA time stamped this document, but the initials are not timed. So what time did my surgeon get there? Never?
Final thing about just this one single sheet of paper, look at the time! 10:00! My surgery was supposed to start well before this! So why did the writer of the report put the time at 10:00? I was drugged well before 10:00 and I talked to this person before I was drugged. What's up with the odd timing of this?
This is just the kind of sloppy record keeping that makes one angry and suspicious. Just one single document and so many errors.
Wednesday, February 8, 2012
This is standard operating procedure for medicine these days. (pun not intended) Mere minutes isn't enough time to talk to the patient and explain what the plan is. Is this intentional? I think so. With Versed, there's no point in explaining anything is there? The patient will have amnesia (they hope) about everything anyway.
Verbally agreeing is their way of not having any more conversation with you as a patient than is humanly possible and still perform their job. They don't give a damn WHAT you say or WHAT you want. Who are you anyway? Once a document is signed, then they can go ahead with whatever the hell they want. Prove you said NO! Prove that all this isn't medically necessary, just like they claim!
Why wouldn't the "anesthesia" start loooong before the surgery? It serves several purposes. I think #1 is that the medical people want to "get rid of you" as quickly as possible. Annoying patients and their endless questions are to be avoided at all cost. Which brings me to reason #2 which is that the sooner they can drug you with Versed, the sooner the level of care cost can be adjusted upward. Same nurse, same patient, but now the nursing care "charges" skyrocket and they can add in the crna charges. See how that works? Versed is for medical workers, not patients, comfort and ease. Reason #3 would be the "truth serum" part of Versed, in which the patient divulges all their deep dark secrets for the amusement of staff. How fun! Last but not least is the completely obedient and docile patient afforded by Versed. No matter how adamant you are about refusing certain things, this drug will render you totally compliant. The medical workers surely take advantage of this! They took advantage of *me* that way. Claiming I "didn't object" to things after a hefty dose of Versed. Oh yeah, my crna left out the Versed part...
I'm sorry, but my friend still has/had some pre-conceived notions about health care being about the patient. It doesn't matter that SHE wanted to stay awake as long as possible. It doesn't matter that SHE wasn't interested in getting Versed and clearly said NO! It doesn't matter what her mental state was. Versed isn't used for calming frightened, worried or anxious patients... I know that's what medical workers SAY, but it's not true. See above paragraph for the TRUE reasons Versed is used. It's all about the medical workers wishes, not the patients desires. She's on top of it now!
Tuesday, February 7, 2012
I've written to you in the past never imagining I would need your advice. I had surgery in August. (BTW IF you ever need abdominal type surgery run, don't walk, to the surgeon who uses the DaVinci robotic method. Fabulous! One surgeon (who fired me for asking too many questions!) was going to cut me from navel to pubis, I was to be in the hospital for 3-5 days, on pain meds for who knows how long, with six weeks' recovery time. My surgery? (same as the doctor who fired me with a little added extra fixing - a total hysterectomy and bladder fix). I was in the hospital only overnight, no pain meds necessary past day one post op, and felt as if I could go back to work the second day post op!"
Here we have our patient clearly outlining the need for second opinions. She wrote that she saw 3 doctors total, but one passed a way. She was searching for a doctor with at least 15 years of experience. The difference between what the first doctor desired and what the second doctor supplied is stark. I imagine that the COST is also a factor between the two. Kinda makes you wonder if doctor 1 had a financial interest in the treatment center doesn't it? The patient also gave her permission to do the extras. Beware of the fact that many (all?) informed consent documents have verbiage about "doctor has permission to do anything else that they deem necessary during the procedure." Cross that out. This patient was LUCKY that they actually went over the additional parts of the surgery, that MIGHT become extant. If you give them permission through vague statements on the consent form, you may end up with WAAAAY more than you ever anticipated or expected.
In my never humble opinion, allowing the doctors to do other things that they might deem "necessary" while you are unconscious or amnestic defeats the ENTIRE PURPOSE of the "informed" consent. It opens the door to abuse. It also could cause the doctor to have something in mind about what they want to do, but they don't want to even TRY to get your consent for it. So, with the vagueness of the consent, they can get you to agree to one thing specifically, knowing full well that they are going to go far beyond what was stated on the consent. You can't be too careful with medical care.
Monday, February 6, 2012
Friday, February 3, 2012
"I remember this - having one upper and two lower wisdom teeth (the lower teeth impacted) drilled out. It's finally come back to me, as a PTSD-type recall following a routine filling done at the dentist earlier this week. Why was I so scared? I'd never been bothered by the dentist before, but his approaching me with the drill (working on the tooth next to where the wisdom tooth had been) filled me with an absolute dread. This was the first actual treatment I'd had by a dentist since the wisdom teeth were removed (apart from check-ups, cleaning and so on).
This is what I remember about my treatment under Versed a decade ago:
The first memory is about having the lower left drilled. I pleaded with the surgeon to stop. He told me, in an off-hand manner, to keep my mouth open and stop talking, and then gave some instruction to an assistant. It faded. I could see the operation in progress from the reflection on the dentist's headgear. There was what appeared to be a little trench being drilled along my jawline, with blood being sucked out by the assistant. I could see bone, blood, and felt astonishingly harsh pain as he reached in with a drilling device again and again. At that point, I think I blacked out from the pain. I always did remember that, even right afterwards.
Next memory was trying to lift myself up and away from the drill, that was now operating on the upper right. I recall thinking, "Sweet Jesus - They drill them out? Don't they pull them?" Surely what they did in Marathon Man cannot be any worse than this?" They were torturing that guy for information, but they're not questioning me - this has to be for my own good… then a little while later concluding that this could not possibly be for my benefit, they surely were doing it just to torture me. I had no idea why - I've done nothing wrong!. "Nobody's asking me anything that will make this stop! I'm ready to do anything they want now, they've made their point!" Those were my thoughts. I remember it very clearly. I begged them to stop, they were completely disinterested. It was as if I were an animal being dissected live and my squealing was totally inconsequential.
My next recall (perhaps coming around from the first blackout) was where I tried to rise above the drill, to get away from it, but was unable. I do recall pushing the surgeon's hand down, and pleading to him to stop, I'd do whatever he wanted, just - please - stop this! I was told - firmly - to hold still and open my mouth wide, and I complied. The next memory fragment is wondering how long this could possibly last, and fearing that the left lower side would be returned to, because that too was hurting very badly. It was at this point that I could stand no more, and felt beaten - the pain was too much. Whatever had caused me to be in this situation had passed any point I could bear. An instruction to a nurse. The drill went on up, seemingly with the intention of going right through into my brain. Another blackout.
Before they started on the lower right, I'd reached a point of dark despair and confusion - I recall feeling utterly defeated at that stage, this was a torture I just not could feel able to put up with, and this was my universe at that time. I was eager to opt for death rather than this miserable existence, which by that point had lasted as long as I could remember. I now had no memory of who I was, nor any life prior to this. I was simply a man somewhere being tortured, mutilated. My entire existence had started there, being tortured. I asked them to kill me.
They ignored me. I asked again - earnestly, begging - for them to please kill me, I'd had enough. They'd taken a pause for some reason (possibly upping the Versed dosage), during which I thought they were considering whether to continue the torture - hope flashed before me - they may have decided they had sufficient information (or proved to themselves that I had none), and were not going to continue. To my horror. they settled down for another session.
The drill sounded much lower, and more dull, lower pitched than for the first tooth. I'd be willing to bet any money at all, that they'd done my lower left, my upper right, finally my lower right, in that precise order. And they'd been upping the dosage of Versed all the way through. My spirit was totally broken, I could not take this horror any longer. The dentist told me this was the last one, it would be over soon - he did not seem unkind, which puzzled me. By 'over', I presumed he meant dead. That was fine with me, and the sooner the better. I couldn't understand why they were continuing this mutilation since they were going to kill me anyway before long.
Although this last memory is more dark and grainy, it is nevertheless real. The work on the first tooth was - is - absolutely an unimpaired memory, bright and clear. I felt it, saw it, and can recall it right now in detail - even the faces of the individuals involved. I've told people about it in the years since - this isn't just something made up this week. But that is just a fraction of the memories that eventually came flooding back at once. This is not a story on which I've been working for ages, convincing myself of further details.
Memory started mostly functioning again while getting off the surgery chair and asking the dental assistant for my teeth. At that point, I was unaware of most of what had just happened. She seemed kind of weepy and dismissed the idea, referring me to another woman who said I shouldn't be concerned about them, they were "just bits" - she turned her back on me quickly - in retrospect, she seemed traumatised herself. Is there any record of these assistants talking about what they witnessed? The thing I remember most, though, is the surgeon himself - he was a confident, experienced, educated man, with whom I'd enjoyed some verbal jousting beforehand. He'd always had plenty of time for me, before the procedure and during follow-up. But at that moment he looked ashamed.
Refusing their urging to get a taxi (on account of wasted money - I only lived a couple of miles away) - I walked home. It was a strange journey, of which I recall only fragments. I spat a lot of blood into the gutter on the way.
The only reason I'd agreed to the IV was upon the insistence of the entire staff. My first wisdom tooth extraction a couple of weeks earlier wasn't pleasant but - against their advice - I'd refused the IV for that one (upper right) because it would cost more money. $250 to save an hour's discomfort? No way! I'll tough it out with a local. It wasn't nice - by any stretch - but I have no complaint about that. It seems that I complied with my own torture when having the other three out under Versed, and there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it. The only respites in the entire session were those periods where I blacked out from the agony.
This is just my guess, but my experience may be typical - the difference being that I recall a lot of it. Versed doesn't dull the pain, it just makes one compliant and helpless, and most importantly amnesic."
I've written to you in the past never imagining I would need your advice. I had surgery in August. (BTW IF you ever need abdominal type surgery run, don't walk, to the surgeon who uses the DaVinci robotic method. Fabulous! One surgeon (who fired me for asking too many questions!) was going to cut me from navel to pubis, I was to be in the hospital for 3-5 days, on pain meds for who knows how long, with six weeks' recovery time. My surgery? (same as the doctor who fired me with a little added extra fixing - a total hysterectomy and bladder fix). I was in the hospital only overnight, no pain meds necessary past day one post op, and felt as if I could go back to work the second day post op!
What happened: when the anesthesiologist came to me pre-op mere minutes prior to surgery to wheel me to the OR (he never asked if I had questions, never explained anything - noda, nothing, zip, zilch). I specifically said I wanted to be awake as long as possible and be 'put out' only when absolutely necessary. He verbally agreed. I am thrilled! When my husband had surgery 2 years ago, I noticed on his anesthesia record that anesthesia starts loooooong before surgery and I wanted to avoid not only the additional expense, but I wanted to experience all I could. I get on the table, an additional IV is started, I am asking questions as I am super curious about what is happening. The next thing I know I comment on a 'sensation' in my arm and he replies that that is the medication (did not name). I remember saying, "It's too early" and then blackness. Mind you - I was not anxious, I was not nervous, the prep was not painful, and I have endured much more embarrassing incidents so there was no medically necessary reason for me to be out or sedated.
Anyway, surgery went fine, BUT I believe I was given Versed against my wishes and in fact had it listed as an allergy on the advice of a pre-surgery nurse in order to ensure I would not get it. When I got my chart I noticed 'Midazolam' written and then crossed out. The jerk anesthesiologist didn't even bother to look at my chart or wristband for allergies before shooting me up! I have no proof that he gave it to me, however. Do you know if it is a 'controlled substance' for which a nurse or doctor has to sign for and records kept? How could I get access to the records for that day? Do I need a lawyer for that?
I got my complete hospital records. I took nurses training and was licensed for a time several years ago so I do have some medical knowledge. On the record of anesthesia page the anesthesiologist recorded that anesthesia was started a mere 5 minutes after I arrived in the OR - Propofol and an inhalant agent - which coincides with my recollection. I was soooo angry. Propofol was used and I do know it is called 'milk of amnesia' and can cause retrograde amnesia (how long a period of time does the amnesia go back, do you know?), but I was NOT told of amnesia (except for during the surgery itself), I was NOT told I would be awake for the prep only to be the entertainer of the hour. Plus the record states anesthesia started 5 minutes after my arrival - with the Propofol and an inhalant. I should have been out, right? Straight Propofol in lower dose is used for conscious sedation, tho, isn't it?
So....my case is the opposite of yours. I consented to general anesthesia and presumably got conscious sedation first, then GA. I did NOT consent to conscious sedation. I did NOT consent to amnesia. In fact, that word was NOT uttered or written anywhere by anyone.
At my post op appointment with my surgeon I commented on the fact that I REALLY wanted to be awake for all the prep and was SO angry, disappointed, absolutely livid that I was not. She replied, "Oh, you were awake. In fact, you were quite entertaining"!!! WHAT?! I believe she immediately realized she had let the proverbial cat out of the bag and quickly made an excuse to leave the room thinking that was the end of it. It took months to get another appointment to ask questions. During which time, I am sure, the legal department was consulted. Nobody in her office will even talk with me without there being two of them - even to tell me an appointment was cancelled!!
At my most recent appointment - to talk -just last week, I reminded her of what she'd said and asked point blank what it was I had done and/or said 'under the influence' that was so entertaining. I understand that Propofol is much like truth serum and that it releases inhibitions allowing one to say and do things they would not normally do. I am so upset to know I was out of control with no memory of what I did/said. She claims she can't remember. So, trying to jog her memory or get her to say what I did do because what I suggested was so far off the mark, I asked: Did I try to seduce the anesthesiologist? Did I try to seduce her? Did I entertain everyone with singing and striptease? Did I threaten to sue? What??? She said No. No. No. No. She did say she remembers talking with me as the ekg leads were being placed, she remembers the circulating nurse changing out and forgetting to hit the start button for my video (GRRRRRR), she remembers specifics about the following day, BUT she expects me to believe she cannot remember what I did that was so entertaining?! Information she volunteered! So I should believe what she said in January, but not believe her off the cuff remark in October?!
I did meet briefly with the anesthesiologist (I was shocked he would see me!) and told him how upset I was. His response? "Well you were awake when you went into the operating room, weren't you?! As if that consitutes 'until absolutely necessary'! I followed up with a letter detailing how angry I am, asking for an explanation and asking for answers to questions on what was used, why it was used, my reaction to same, etc. Not surprisingly I have not received an answer.
In the letter I also asked him to write a letter to his billing department as well as that of the hospital as I did not need nor want and in fact asked not to have the 43 minutes of anesthesia prior to surgery and that I was not going to pay for it. I have not received further billing from him which tells me he knows he did me wrong and, I believe, they are fearful of a lawsuit and are hoping this tiny concession will sidetrack me. NOT.
I have talked with and written to the 'patient advocate' - what a joke! When this is all done, I will most definitely write to not only the 'patient advocate', but her supervisors and/or superiors to tell them exactly what I think. Patient = person who was or is being treated. Advocate = supporter, defender; to speak, plead, or argue in favor of. The only person or entity they advocate for is the hospital, clinic, staff, and/or doctor! They do NOT call, they do NOT answer simple questions, they deflect, obfuscate, delay, tell half truths, out right lie. I was made to feel it was all my fault, that I was the only one who complained, they were shocked I had complained about so and so as they were one of their best, I was 'whacked' for even asking the questions I asked (many were not accusatory), I simply wanted to know what specific things were that were on the bill. When I ask questions I get attitude from everyone from the receptionist to the 'patient advocate' to the nurse to the doctor. Granted I am so upset I'm sure my tone of voice is less than pleasant, but I do try. I have concluded that the job of the patient advocate is to listen, make sympathetic sounds and then write a letter saying how sorry they all are for the perception of a problem, but that, of course, they find no fault whatsoever in anything that was done in their facility or by any of their exemplary employees.
The patient advocate did write back to say the anesthesiologist DID show me all the equipment in the operating room and DID answer all my questions and DID warn me he was putting me out, which if accurate, further reinforces what my surgeon said about me being awake. I consider that to be even worse behavior on their part - to act and talk with me as though everything is normal and I will remember, all the while knowing I am under the influence of an amnesia-inducing drug. Unconscionable!!! It must be quite entertaining.
It absolutely astounds me the callous cavalier dismissive way we patients are treated. I honestly thought I had asked all the pertinent questions and made all the right requests to ensure a good mental/emotional outcome for my surgery. Boy, was I ever wrong! In the letter I sent my surgeon after my last appointment I said, 'We are expected to endure all manner of procedures in the office that are embarrassing, uncomfortable and downright painful (the excuse for sedation prior to surgery) without benefit of medication, but once they have that IV in you in the hospital anything goes. Do they think we are all such wusses we cannot handle seeing the big bad operating room? Do they honestly believe none of us are curious about the goings on in the operating room? Why do they not at the very least ASK us to what extent we want to be awake and aware? We are NOT all the same. One size does NOT fit all. If 'most' are happy with this treatment (as they so eagerly point out), doesn't that mean there are some who are not? I do understand there are many who do not care and do not want to know anything, but for those of us who do........ I cannot for the life of me understand why we are not consulted. Actually, I do - it is just so much easier and more profitable to do as they please. AND if they were upfront and honest about the amnesia and being out of control how many would consent??!! It definitely is all about the staff rather than the patient - the paying customer.
My surgeon actually told me that in all her 20 years as a surgeon I was the first that had a problem with how I was treated and who wanted to know more than the mere crumbs they throw at you and complained when I was totally ignored. I replied that I sincerely doubt I was the only one to feel the way I do - I was just the only one to let her know! I'm sure many share my husband's opinion - that being "Why bother? It's over and done with and me saying something now won't change a thing." To his credit he is amazingly supportive of me tho he does not share my thoughts and concerns.
IF there ever is a next time I will NOT allow an IV to be started until and unless I talk to the anesthesiologist who will be administering my anesthesia and (s)he details what drugs will be used, when they will be used, for what purpose, and what my reaction will be. I know they cannot say with certainty what will be used as situations can arise necessitating other drugs, but I will, at that time, get in writing and have it signed by all involved what will not be allowed. PLUS what I do and do not expect to happen in the operating room.
Any advice on how to proceed? I'm sure I have no grounds for a lawsuit, but am going to continue to follow up with them all. I really wish I could get things changed, but being labeled a crazy disgruntled patient I am sure not to be taken seriously.
Thanks for letting me vent. I know you understand.
Thursday, February 2, 2012
Thank you for replying and, yes please - feel free to put this on your blog. Lived in SF back in the 90's, I'm now back living in the UK. My memory is somewhat photographic - kind of necessary when dealing with program suites that consist of around 100K lines of densely packed code, or thousands of separate systems known only by a machine-generated name (eg m2964ezgx7) - how they are set up, interact with others and so on. Not trying to brag here, mind - just trying to convey they way my memory works, and why my recollections may be more accurate than those of many people.
I remember a lot more about it now. Those memories were there all along, it took a near panic attack / PTSD experience in the local dentist to bring it back in bits and pieces, but now entire chunks have returned. That was my first dental procedure since (other than check-ups). Thoughts taking place at the time are also now recalled, besides just the event itself. It's very troubling indeed, but I don't believe any of these are imagined or false "recovered" memories.
There's the thoughts of utter misery and confusion, not being aware of my previous life while on the drug - the world and my existence simply consisted of being in that chair, being tortured for no reason that I could think of. All I wanted was for the torture to stop, and trying to think of anything to end it, pleading with them. Finally, I was begging them to kill me.
It's not a pleasant task, reliving this experience. It's hard to think of much else, in fact. The memories have returned, and I recall what I was thinking at the time. Please stand by for a more full account of what I know to be the genuine experiences, forgotten temporarily as a result of this Versed. It is with some trepidation that I wonder what would be recalled next. Perhaps putting on that old CD played during the torture session will jog more memories.
I am so glad that Glenn contacted me. I am looking forward to putting up lots of his thoughts on his experience. For all you anesthesia types, does Glenn's experience sound like a fun trip? He was begging them to kill him! This is not OK in any way, shape or form, regardless of whether he could remember it or not. I am still able to be shocked at the depraved indifference to suffering that is exhibited by people who use Versed, even in a dental setting!
Hello - I found your blog very interesting indeed. Just read your entry about "smart people beware" and, not wishing to blow my own trumpet, but I'm extremely technically minded (software engineer of some distinction, writing a rather complex bespoke database from scratch for example), and I'm a Unix admin for some very high profile clients (involving massive throughput,extremely high availability etc.) as the final line of support, and deploying same after designing the architecture.
You referenced the ability to think rapidly too - particularly while on the road. As the rider of a 2011 edition superbike, I'd have to say that quick thinking and reacting are necessary qualifications to ride one of them!
Anyway - I'm piecing together what happened to me followinga routine visit to the dentist yesterday, during which I experienced
something very akin to how I've heard PTSD being described. A simple filling replacement gave me a ludicrously fearful experience. The dentist was competent, kind, there was no pain at all - and I've never been afraid of the dentist before, or anything even approaching fear on this level, about anything! Yet as he prepared to get to work with the drill, I was in a state of near terror. It was all I could do to hold it together - the dentist probably thought it was a phobia.
My memory is excellent, there's hardly an experience I've forgotten since very early childhood. However, after receiving IV for having wisdom teeth removed (two impacted) in San Fran back in 1998, I recall fleeting moments of terrible pain and suffering. These moments are rather detailed too - they are not some vague, dream- like imagined moments, they were incredibly intense.
Three wisdom teeth, the bottom two impacted, were extracted. I recall pieces of the procedure, and looking into my own mouth at the operation taking place - this was actually the reflection from the dentists' head-gear. I was in a great deal of pain and fear but could not resist. Fragments of memories trouble me - these involved having my jaw drilled deeply in various places accompanied by horrendous pain.
They recommended playing a CD during the procedure. I don't remember hearing it at the time, but now it makes me uneasy to even hear the name of the band - it used to be a favourite.
I don't know what went on in any great detail, but I certainly know there was insufficient local anesthetic (if any) for the procedure. It seemed back then that I must have partially woken up, but that's not what happened. The truth is that I remember just a little of what was a very, very bad experience.
Thank you for your work on this - I aim to do a lot more research too. Only put this whole thing together and realised what was
going on since yesterday afternoon.
Here is the comment. BloggerT has left a new comment on your post "Shocking Versed Facts You Won't Hear From Anesthes...":
"Ummm... Pretty sure none of the side effects you listed are 'secret'. You can find them anywhere information is listed about the drug. Ever picked up a drug book? These are all typical side effects of almost every anesthesia drug. This is why EVERY patient who is administered Versed is hooked up to machines that monitor blood pressure, pulse rate, oxygen saturation, rate of respirations, the works.... Oh yeah. Did I forget to mention the doctors and nurses at the bedside who are continually monitoring your vital signs and who also have drugs on hand to reverse the effects of versed if anything goes awry? Side effects are never pleasant, but the alternative of having procedures done without anesthesia would be even more so."
Beginning at the beginning; "Ummm..." is a really snotty way of denigrating our experience. This person is saying that we lack understanding. I know because I use this myself. "Pretty sure none of the side effects you listed are 'secret'." 'Secret' from whom is the question. These side effects aren't a secret from medical workers, but I have yet to see a true informed consent which even begins to address ANY of these allegedly non-secret side effects.
The poster tries to face this problem in their statement; "YOU (emphasis mine) can find them anywhere information is listed about the drug." This assumes that the truth is told to the patient about what drugs are GOING to be used in the FUTURE! This information is NOT forthcoming from medical workers. They almost universally tell the patient that they will simply be given a sedative, IF they tell them anything at all prior to appearing in the medical setting. They are certainly NOT going to mention Versed because they don't WANT us to research it. We would refuse the damn stuff! Can't have that!
My own experience was that since I refused any sedation and general anesthetic *I* was told that "Vitamin V" was just a muscle relaxant. Look up "Vitamin V" and see what this drug is... IF you can find "Vitamin V" in any "book" about drugs, can you please tell me what it says? There is no way to do the research required if the drug is called by a euphemism. Also it is a little difficult to research an unnamed drug whilst practically naked, hooked up to machines in a treatment center setting. Just sayin' Oh and by the way, it isn't the patients job to do research on drugs which may or may not be used on them by secretive medical people, now is it?
"Ever picked up a drug book?" I have NOW! I am still angry that *I* am expected to buy and/or read drug books so that I know as much as the people hired to do my anesthesia! " Are you kidding me? So any time I hire an expert in a particular field I must go out and educate myself as to THEIR JOB! This is madness. I hire people and expect them to know their job, AND tell me what needs to be done, including the cost thereof, plus the things that might go wrong. In a medical setting there is a little thing called an INFORMED consent, which means that medical workers must describe IN DETAIL exactly what they are going to do, both to your body and your mind. Including, dear medical worker, anything that YOU may know that is pertinent to MY care. It's not up to me to know any of this, by researching it or buying books on drugs, it's your job to tell me. By LAW!
"These are all typical side effects of almost every anesthesia drugs." Yes, but WHOSE JOB IS IT TO DEFINE THESE "TYPICAL SIDE EFFECTS?" Don't even try this one with me. Amnesia, being awake and aware, screaming in pain, begging for the procedure to stop, babbling about your sex life, none of these would be a "typical side effect" of an anesthesia drug. Where are these side effects listed? These side effects are particular to Versed/Midazolam, but I just can't find them listed anywhere and I don't see you addressing this problem. You medical people can't even seem to get to that list of "typical side effects" with us, let alone the singular side effects of Versed. Why aren't you telling us?
Here's the really self serving part... "This is why EVERY patient who is administered Versed is hooked up to machines that monitor blood pressure, pulse rate, oxygen saturation, rate of respirations, the works... Oh yeah. Did I forget to mention the doctors and nurses at the bedside who are continually monitoring your vital signs and a who also have drugs on hand to reverse the effects of versed if anything goes awry?" Oh really, I didn't know that... (mocking tone) That's why you were hired isn't it? I wouldn't go in for surgery unless these allegedly "trained" people were in attendance. Sheesh! My experience is that these people simply give more Versed in case of emergency, because Versed is the only drug on the planet which has zero side effects... At least that's the party line with medical people.
The last part of this comment goes like this. "Side effects are never pleasant, but the alternative of having procedures done without anesthesia would be even more so." This is completely and entirely off topic. We are not asking not to have anesthesia. We are asking that VERSED the brain poison isn't a part of it. I expect and would demand anesthesia. Just because I don't want Versed doesn't mean I want to go without anesthesia entirely! No sane person would suggest this, and regardless of the opinion of the commenter, those of us who object to Versed are not insane. We ARE ASKING to have our pain minimized. That's what anesthesia is about! If we need to be unconscious, then that's what we need to do. Versed has absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE DESIRES! Nothing. "Asleep" or "unconscious" is a different animal altogether.
I love this commenter's post! It is well written and perfect in its obfuscation! This is an excellent example of how our concerns about Versed are turned back on "us." We are blamed for not knowing what the "experts" know. The water is further muddied by the claims that if we don't like Versed then maybe we will be getting no anesthesia at all. This is sooo NOT what we patients are saying. Nice try, but your whole post is off topic. You sent it off topic by trying to equate "typical" anesthesia drugs and their side effects with the nasty little brain damage drug Versed. Versed has nothing to do with anesthesia other than it can be used in conjunction with anesthesia. It's an AMNESIA AND PATIENT CONTROL DRUG! That's all. It's unnecessary for anesthesia AND it has myriad reported side effects (for those of us who are FORCED to become the equivilant of a crna in drug related matters) AND side effects which are kept secret. Why should we patients have to take risks with ourselves which are NOT warranted and are only in the best interest of medical workers? Medical care is risky (and costly) enough without adding Versed to it!